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Post by daniel on Jun 14, 2004 19:25:44 GMT -5
Has anyone considered reversing the rear nidecs to intake, while still using the fan shroud? And installing either a higher cfm exhaust or a blow hole on top?
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Post by TRow on Jun 15, 2004 5:45:30 GMT -5
The Result will be Higher Temps, all around. Plus, your no longer Recycling Fresh Ambient Air, Your pumping the PSU Exhaust into your CPU. The Clam Shell Design of the XPS would be easy to Cut a Blow Hole: Consider This: 1. What are your Goals by Doing this Config? 2. What other "more practical" options do you have? 3. Do you plan to Overclock your VGA? 4. What Temps are you seeing Idle/Load? 5. What kinka of PC Parts(Fans,Wire, Molex,Parts,Tools) do you have available to experiment with? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- If anything, Replace the Stock 80mm NMB with a High CFM Fan, Power it from the PSU.
==Select a Fan that comes with a 3 speed Rheostat like ThermalTake 80mmm Fans @ Pctoyland.com for $8!!!  www.pctoyland.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=A2016&Category_Code=80From what I gather Your looking to lower your temps, Reversing the Nidec's WILL NOT Help you Achieve this Goal. Try Replacing the Fan thats YOUR INTAKE First, then work from there.....Trust me  T.RoW Heres a Good HSink Fan too $5 Bucks at Pctoyland.com  www.pctoyland.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=840556014225&Category_Code=80 |
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Post by Techknow on Jun 15, 2004 7:56:54 GMT -5
Im currently planning on Replacing the 80mm F.Fan with a Thermaltake(like T.RoW recommended from PCToylan).
And then Im going to Install another 80mm TT Smart Fan on the Heatsink.
This "should" get some good results, and the Green Shroud will be removed as well.
The Rear Nidec reversing Ive tried, and it only traps heat in the CPU, and "Chipset" area, those Temps were HIGH!!!
Techknow
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Post by daniel on Jun 15, 2004 11:31:16 GMT -5
okay, last night I tried reversing the nidecs, along with an 88cfm front exhaust fan. cpu temps were 51 with a system temp of 42. I switched nidecs back to exhaust (still using fan shroud) and the delta fan to intake. I also added a 80mm 27cfm fan in my hard drive bay behind the 2 raptors (with modification) cpu temp is 52, and system temp is 39.
t-row i read most of your articles, i want to add a fan to my heat pipe. however i don't have the holes like yours. mine is generation 2 xps pentium iv 3.4. Any suggestions?
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Post by daniel on Jun 15, 2004 11:44:44 GMT -5
Any new ideas?
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Post by dano104 on Jun 15, 2004 11:46:03 GMT -5
Okay finally i have an account with this forum. All information is included below.
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Post by TRow on Jun 15, 2004 13:10:08 GMT -5
Thats a tough one, I ran into this problem with another User. You have several options: 1. Use the Retension Clip(Black) to Secure the Fan, either with Speaker Wire or ANYTHING You can think of thats Somewhat Secure. *The Fan your Putting on there isn't very Powerful, so Securing it SUPER TIGHT IS NOT a Factor.  (For Illustration of The Black Bracket Only!) This Bracket is VERY STRONG, and Is Flexible Too! And is mounted quite securely, and Would be an excellent place to Think about Securing Your New HSF ======================================= 2. Zalman Fan Bracket Mount  www.casecooler.com/fanadbrac.html====================================== 3. Order a HeatPiped Heatsink From Dell ======================================= I will have more ideas/suggestions this afternoon...Im going to see "Man On Fire." *Your Goal is to Stay within the Warranty Guidelines. But Idea #1 looks like the best Scenario because the Fan's CFM's will allow you to mount without worry. Trust me.... *If you Lived in the STL, it would be so much easier:D T.RoW |
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Post by dano104 on Jun 15, 2004 14:39:42 GMT -5
T.Row It is funny you should mention STL, I was born and raised about 1.5 hours east of you guys in southern IL. I'll be moving back there in October.
Hey do you have any advice for modding the nidec fans so they run at full speed constantly.
1.) I would like to mod my nidecs for full speed.
2.) I want to mount the original dell intake fan on my heatsink ( this would kill that pesky boot error ).
3. Allready have a Delta 80mm 88cfm intake fan, and a 80mm 30 cfm mounted in the hard drive bay as intake. ( i still have that long black piece of plastic installed on the door, i guess it was made to reduce the volume of the case ) Have you noticed a difference with this black piece removed? how much will cutting out the front and rear fan screens help?
I'm just trying to shoot for 45 C cpu temps, is that too much to ask for? lol! right now i'm at 52 C idle.
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Post by TRow on Jun 15, 2004 17:18:45 GMT -5
Nidec Fan Thermistor Mod:
I don't recommend doing this, heres why:
1) The Fans are EXTREMELY FAST and LOUD. I cannot not begin to describe how loud they are. Frickin LOUD!
2) I had system Beeps, when under LOAD conditions using 1 Fan w/Thermistor Mod'd. BUT That was powering it from the F.Fan connector on the Mobo.
*Which also Picked up the Fan's RPMs, which may be why I got the beeps. (Internal Control, i.e. Dell Bios sensing a Fan Spinning WAY To FAST!
3)DO NOT Power the Mod'd FAN or FANS from the MOBO! Sure Fire way to FRY your Board, Plus These Are Now High CFM Fans, Which Should NEVER BE DIRECTLY POWERED FROM A MOTHERBOARD!
=======================================
With that said:
The Thermistor on a Fan is basically a Incomplete Circuit, regulated by Heat Sensitive material. When This Material Gets Hot, It allows for electricity to Flow thru...Thus the Fans Speed Up.
When it gets cooler, it only allows a certain amount of electricity to pass thru.Thus the Fans Slow Donw. This 'certain amount" is determined by what Thermistor material is used and its resistance to heat.
To Override this Thermistor, you Must Simply Complete the Circuit. I used some wire, stripped the wire down to bare metal. Twisted the wires so they wouldn't fray, and wrapped them around the metal Pins on the Thermistor Tightly. That should and Will Complete the Circuit.
=======================================
I dont recommend this because so much is unproven about the XPS with regards to the Dell Bios, and its Fan RPM Min/Max settings. The System Beeps I got may have been from Powering the Fan from the F.Fan connector. But again, that I cant prove.
If I were you, I would Mod 1 Fan thermistor, Install it and run some tests under Load and See if you get ANYTHING out of the ordinary. I think once you hear this fan running at Max Speed, you'll probably Return to its normal configuration.
How loud? Too loud, as in unbearable to be around, even in game.
T.RoW
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Post by dano104 on Jun 15, 2004 17:33:41 GMT -5
Do you think the stock intake fan will run good enough to cool my cpu? ( with shroud removed of course ) Oh and what is your opinion on the black plastic piece on the door?
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Post by TRow on Jun 15, 2004 17:54:40 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't answer you more completely, Im still dazed from the Man on Fire Movie. The Stock F.Fanwill Work Perfectly for a CPU Fan, as about 30 CFM is what I had with my Stage 1 Mod. ======================================= The Black Plastic Piece is Optional: *I would try it With and Without *Reducing Volume in the Case will Only HELP the fans achieve the Push : Pull Effect of the Air Cycle More Rapidly. Which is always good. But again, Test the hypothesis to be sure. *Also, I would cover ANY Holes that are left open on the CASE. Meaning, the Vents on the Front, and Rear of the Case. Try Covering, then Test, then Uncover and Test...Just to see the difference.  OLD PICTURE! From Stage 1 Modification. ======================================= Cutting the Front Metal "Mesh" Holes is Not Necessary, and Probably Wont Help That Much. So I would leave it, for warranty purposes too! I only cut mine, to take the theory of restricted airflow(becuase of the Grill) out of the equation. Peace of mind if you will. But after my testing(s), I believe its unneccesary. Let us know what happens... T.RoW |
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Post by dano104 on Jun 15, 2004 18:08:11 GMT -5
You know this whole operation of us trying to control our temps is rather frustrating, Dell could have done alot better with this. Do my current temps sound bad? 51c cpu and 42c system?
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Post by TRow on Jun 15, 2004 18:32:06 GMT -5
You know this whole operation of us trying to control our temps is rather frustrating, Dell could have done alot better with this. Do my current temps sound bad? 51c cpu and 42c system? Im assuming from Previous Posts, that those are Idle Temps. ======================================= 1. The most important Factor: Whats the Room(ambient) temperature in your Home? -If its more than 74Faranheit thats a definate contributor. 2. Yes thats HOT For Idle Temps assuming room temp 70-74. 3. Yes, dealing with the XPS's cooling issues is VERY frustrating...but keep in mind Dell's design is to manage noise as a priority, while maintaing the Manufactures suggested Operating Temps. **For your CPU that can mean Up to 85c or higher. For VGA(9800series) From 100c up to 120c before permanent damage. 4. Id suggest that you do a Stage 3 Modification. The Benefits will FAR OUTWEIGHT the Costs. To give you a good example of this. Below are my Load and Idle Temps for last 42 hours or so. The Temps in my Apartment have Gone Up and Down Ranging from 70F to 78F. ![]() www.umsl.edu/~natc7d/todaytemps.gif[/img] T.RoW |
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Post by dano104 on Jun 16, 2004 11:16:33 GMT -5
Okay I have some news to report.
First of all my ambient temperature is around 27-28c
-With the two stock nidecs running exhaust (green shroud removed)
-With two 80mm fans in the front running at approximately 110 cfm of intake.
-With the stock dell intake fan on heatpipe heatsink.
Before temperatures (idle) cpu 52 system 41
After temperatures (idle) cpu 58 system 40
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Post by bubbadubba on Jun 16, 2004 11:34:03 GMT -5
Dano104,
Dude that still is really hot, 58c for idle CPU temp is no good. Do yourself a huge favor and copy what Trow has done. You have to get that Thermaltake UFO CPU Fan that Trow recommends...It brings down my CPU idle temp to 32c.
To be fair my ambient temps are around 22-23c but I don't think that would be the cause for such a wide difference in CPU temps...(5-10c maybe but not 20c+)
That UFO fan kicks butt, and worth every penny in my opinion.
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Post by dano104 on Jun 16, 2004 11:37:32 GMT -5
Yeah I put my machine back to the 52c configuration till i have some extra money. My wife is giving me crap, "you mean to tell me you gave $2600 dollars for a computer, and you are allready wanting to spend another 60 on it" lol
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Post by bubbadubba on Jun 16, 2004 11:46:24 GMT -5
I know and feel your pain.  Yesterday was my 13th wedding anniversary. Too bad I FORGOT ALL ABOUT IT!! LOL Well lucky for me my wife is very forgiving. So to make up for it I actually showered, shaved and brushed my teeth this morning and then made her favorite breakfast. But I too had to spend some time convincing my wife that everything would be O.K. if she would just let me tweak the computer a little.... |
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Post by TRow on Jun 16, 2004 13:37:29 GMT -5
Okay I have some news to report. First of all my ambient temperature is around 27-28c -With the two stock nidecs running exhaust (green shroud removed) -With two 80mm fans in the front running at approximately 110 cfm of intake. -With the stock dell intake fan on heatpipe heatsink. Before temperatures (idle) cpu 52 system 41 After temperatures (idle) cpu 58 system 40 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ambient Air temps of 27c is pretty hot, unless your just running idle(email,surfing). But there's more to it than just Ambient air. 1. Thermal Compound(Dell's Gunk is Junk) 2. R.Exhaust Fan Thermistors(pisses me off)renders the Fan ineffective. 3.Prescott CPU?-Forged From Fresh Lava 4.Clear Air Pathways(i.e. Ribbon vs. Rounded Cables) ======================================= The Tt UFO #2 is a REALLY Good Hsink fan, 70+CFM Rating and 3 Different ways to control it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ What I recommend you do: 1. Replace ALL the Stock Fans, with Aftermarket Ones. **Buy the Rear Fans from www.coolerguys.com/840556014089.html$2.95 per 92mm Fan: these are exactly what I have for R.Fans. **Zalman Multi Connector will NOT be needed as these fans come with all the wiring accesories you will need.  ======================================= 2. Install a Heatsink Fan: UFO #2 with the Mounting Plate is a Great Buy!!!$12 www.pctoyland.com **I use the 3 speed control that came with it for this fan. ======================================= 3. Flush Mount a 92mm or 120mm Tt Fan using the Factory Holes(several hole options too) to the Front Metal Mesh Grill.  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Given your Ambient Air conditions, and the specs on your PC, this is a MUST to prolong the life of your PC. The CPU is heating other components, contributing to the snow-ball effect of higher all around temps. The Faster you Can Recycle Ambient Air Into and Out of your system, the Lower the PC temps. The New HSF, New R.Fans, New Intake all have synergisic effects. Meaning together they work well together, but individual additions only hurt there potential performance when combined. Most custom built users' with similar specs choose water cooling. Go figure. I understand TOTALLY your position on spending More money on an already expensive machine. But one of you had a really good point in another post. Something along the lines of heat related stress on other Dell systems, and how they affect the life and performance of the PC. The benefits of this investment will guarantee that you won't have those same issues. This is mandatory investment to prolong the life and performance of a High-End PC. Unless you want the headaches of System Failures, locks, BSOD,etc... Which can all be avoided, and You get TO MOD TOO!!! ;D T.Row |
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Post by dano104 on Jun 16, 2004 13:58:14 GMT -5
Nope, it is a northwood chip, but i get your point none the less.
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Post by dano104 on Jun 16, 2004 16:16:02 GMT -5
I just emailed dell technical support, and asked them if they would provide me with a more aggresive cooling solution. It will probably not get me anywhere, but it doesn't hurt to try. right?
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Yesterday was my 13th wedding anniversary.