How Hot Is Too Hot For the Dell XPS?

[bubbadubba]

Hey Trow,
I promise to get those pics of my XPS up ASAP; I suffer from a little known chronic disease known as LAZINESS.

Anyway, my question to you is if I hadn't found your website and had just left my system alone, how long would it of been until serious problems showed up with stability, component life, memory errors, etc... I know you can't say for sure but what would be your best S.W.A.G.?(Super wild a@! guess)

I surf the Dell community forums and it seems those poor bastards suffer from excess heat fatigue and don't even know it. Hard drives failing, memory errors, flaky mother boards, all of this could be because of excess heat, do you agree?

I use my XPS as a video and audio work station continually, and encode allot of video. I shutter to think what would be happening with my 3 month old system by now if it was still pumping out those high temps!

[dano104]

High temps are bad, however I think we stress a little too much about them. Don't forget Intel p4 processors have step down technology, incase the system does get too hot, it will decrease clock speed until stability and temps have been reached.

[bubbadubba]

Dano104,
Yes you do make a valid point but when I'm in the middle of an 30 minute encode it would suck to no end for the CPU to slow down or throttle back.
I mean I bought the darn thing to work at the advertised clock speed....Dell should have done better.
They marketed the XPS as the latest and greatest Gaming/ Multimedia computer, and to not engineer it to handle the full load heat of the CPU is a big OPPS!

[TRow]

Note:


ATi 9800XT: 100c to 120c Temps Cause Permanent Damage based on Lab Results, they(of Course) won't give a Average, nominal number because ALL PC's are different.

Case Temp: Should NEVER EXCEED 45C. Thats a Definate danger zone because your CPU Recommended Intake Air Temp is above the safe zone.

Hope this helps.
T.RoW

[TRow]

Read the Paragraph in the Picture Below




The Air Temperature Entering the Fan should be kept Below 40C!





Above: Tc is defined as the Geometric Top Center of the IHS. The IHS (illustrated in Middle Pic) is the Top of the CPU where the HSink Contacts the Surface(IHS) of the CPU. IHS is where you would find the ID Numbers for the CPU.

T.RoW

[bubbadubba]

Trow,

Thanks for your response, very detailed and enlightening.

So by what I read in the post(s) above, my 3.2GHz Northwood has a operational temp of a min t=5c and a max t=70c. My system ran slightly hotter than yours did stock. I see on your website that your CPU load temp was @ 57c, while mine would go to 60c - 61c. Umm...so Dell engineers decided that it would be ok to run an XPS @ 85% of maximum temp? Or in other words a mere 15% margin of safety or should I say margin of error? LOL.

What gets me is that modding the XPS wasn't all that expensive or hard and it resulted in nice stable temps for both idle and load. In addition to your mod, I installed the Thermaltake hardcano fan controller. It controls the UFO HSF, my 120mm front fan, and the two rear exhaust fans. I turn everything down to the min RPMs and the system still maintains its low temps at idle and is just as quiet as the stock setup.

I just don't see any excuse for Dell other than they spent the least amount of time and money engineering the thermal dynamics of the system as possible. Maybe next time it will be different story.

[TRow]

I absolutely agree with you on every point. Its a shame that so many XPS user's have to deal with this headache. Yet alone those user's who don't have internet access, or don't know about the dangers that lie ahead.
=======================================


Im also interested in how that Hardcano works.

I recently ran across a Article on Tom's Hardware about a Fan Controller round up, but they didn't review Tt.
www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040615/index.html

=======================================
When you Power the Tt UFo for example. Did you Jumper the Fan, and then Use the Rheostat on the Hardcano to Control? How did you power, and then control the UFO?(basically how did you hook them up?)

Thanks in advance,
T.Row

[bubbadubba]

TRow,
Well the Hardcano is powered by the PSU. It has a wiring harness coming out the back that has two 4-pin Molex power
connectors and four 4-pin Molex connectors for the four fan Rheostats. All fans then become controllable thru the hardcano.
I also have the RPM signal wire going to the MB fan connectors for both the rear exhaust fans (which are wired together for power not rpm)
and the CPU fan. But all power for the fans comes thru the Hardcano and from the PSU. I've included links to pics of my
computer at the end of this post. You'll notice that I did some modding to the UFO fan. I found that by taking off the grill
and clipping some of the reversed fin supports I was able to increase the flow considerably. I can't tell you by how much,
I don't have access to a flow bench, but just by feel I can tell you that it helped. Another added benefit was that the without
the fan grill the fan noise went down too. I'm guessing because of less air turbulence at the blade edge. Anyway I like it,
can't thank you enough for your ideas and help, thanks TRow.

[TRow]

BADASS!!! That some nice modifications you have there. I edited the Pics to Display on Page, I hope you dont mind. GOOD JOB! Good cable management, pretty clean and practical.

Thanks for the Install Info on the Rheostat, the Jumper's thru me off on the wrong trail.

*I cant stop looking at the extra RAM modules(Or the Rack of Lamb on that Avatar). Just not used to seeing the RAM that is ;D

That thing got a Hemi? SWEEEEEEETTTTT!

T.RoW

[TRow]

These are my 3 Favorites:

Cable Ties can be Used For ANYTHING!



A Fan for Both HDD Cooling and Intake, thats Perfect, Period.


T.RoW

[dano104]

How did you mount that hard drive fan? externally?

[bubbadubba]

Thanks TRow. I'm flattered that you like what I did to my XPS. The 120mm front fan was difficult to wedge in there.
It is mounted on the outside of the grill with still room to put the front plate on. I had to grind away on one corner of
the fan to make it fit; the other three corners are zip tied onto the metal mesh grill. That was my first mod before I
found TRow. It is interesting that Dell keeps changing that metal mesh grill. I think I've seen three different configurations
so far. Dell quit redesigning the grill and add more fans! LOL!

[bubbadubba]

LOL
Yes as far as the RAM goes those are "only" 512MB sticks, I see 1GB sticks going in someday!

The only reason they're in there is because I bought mine when Dell was offering free upgrade to 2GB RAM,
free upgrade to 17" FP, and free shipping. It was just dumb luck that I happened to catch that. For me that
makes one time in a row when something good happened becuase of luck....

[dano104]

That is the exact same deal I got dude.

[dano104]

Hey bubba I notice you have a vga silencer, what is your opinion of that cooler?

[bubbadubba]

Yes that's the Arctic VGA Silencer Rev 3. As seen here;
store.coolerguys.com/840556035268.html
Its ok, I wish that the fan was a little stronger, but it seems to get the job done.
With my fan controller I could route it thru and lower the speed but the max RPM
of the thing doesn't seem to be all that impressive. I guess I expected a nice steady
air stream emanating from the rear exhaust port, but even at full RPM I can barely feel
anything....It's quite as a whisper too.

[303dreams]

I have a Gen 1 (maybe Gen2?) Xps (No Holes In Cpu Hs)
it's not modded for cooling, and is stock for now..

anyways my system is down in an unfinished bassment, so it's a little cooler for it down here ambient wise.

heres my temps on average:

Idle Load:
CPU: 36c
RAM: 35c
MB: 36

Fan Speeds: 1704rpm & 1182

Heavy Load (Gaming or Rendering Audio)
Cpu: 55c
Ram: 38c
Mb: 39c

Fan Speeds: 2400 & 1800

Id assume those are a bit lower then some other peoples, but what do you guys think?

considering im in a basment, and its generally under 20c down here, the system (at least i think) is still a little warm for my liking.. gonna think about doing some of the fan mods ive read in the board.. (like adding front 92mm fan, 80mm fan to cpu, replace rear fans)..

thing is i as well dont have those holes in the cpu heat sink, so not sure what im gonna do for the cpu.. may try one of the 92mm fans that comes on the bracket you mount ontop of your pci slot screws...

bubbadubba said:

Hey Trow,
I promise to get those pics of my XPS up ASAP; I suffer from a little known chronic disease known as LAZINESS.

Anyway, my question to you is if I hadn't found your website and had just left my system alone, how long would it of been until serious problems showed up with stability, component life, memory errors, etc... I know you can't say for sure but what would be your best S.W.A.G.?(Super wild a@! guess)

I surf the Dell community forums and it seems those poor bastards suffer from excess heat fatigue and don't even know it. Hard drives failing, memory errors, flaky mother boards, all of this could be because of excess heat, do you agree?

I use my XPS as a video and audio work station continually, and encode allot of video. I shutter to think what would be happening with my 3 month old system by now if it was still pumping out those high temps!

[TRow]

303dreams said:

I have a Gen 1 (maybe Gen2?) Xps (No Holes In Cpu Hs)
it's not modded for cooling, and is stock for now..

anyways my system is down in an unfinished bassment, so it's a little cooler for it down here ambient wise.

heres my temps on average:

Idle Load:
CPU: 36c
RAM: 35c
MB: 36

Fan Speeds: 1704rpm & 1182

Heavy Load (Gaming or Rendering Audio)
Cpu: 55c
Ram: 38c
Mb: 39c

Fan Speeds: 2400 & 1800

Id assume those are a bit lower then some other peoples, but what do you guys think?

considering im in a basment, and its generally under 20c down here, the system (at least i think) is still a little warm for my liking.. gonna think about doing some of the fan mods ive read in the board.. (like adding front 92mm fan, 80mm fan to cpu, replace rear fans)..

thing is i as well dont have those holes in the cpu heat sink, so not sure what im gonna do for the cpu.. may try one of the 92mm fans that comes on the bracket you mount ontop of your pci slot screws...

Your Idle CPU Temps are Lower than most on a Stock XPS.

Your Load Temps in General are about the same as a stock XPS.
=======================================

Bubbadubba has a good mod'n idea for getting around the "heatsink Hole" issue.


The Retension bracket is very secure, and mulitple cable ties would work great for this situation.
=======================================
With the Ambient Temps in your basement....

Simply adding a New Intake Fan(Stage 1) and a Beefed Up Heatsink fan(Stage 3) would make a HUGE difference.

www.umsl.edu/~natc7d/cooling.htm

T.RoW

[303dreams]

thanks for the advice.. i was considering the 92mm fan on the bracket, that mounts via the expanson slot screws, but my main concern was since it woult now be actually "on" the heatsink, but rather above it, i wasnt sure if it would be able to do the job needed... my other thought was to get the heatlink retaining clip i need and just throw on a good hs/fan combo on the processor, but ill be dammed if i can find a site that sells the retainer besides intel themselves, and im not gonna basically pay $30+ to order somthin thats under 10$ and the rest is shipping to up here in canada..

maybe i will try your way and use some ties... think i should just go all out, and replace those 2 rear fans as well? i can pick up a pair of nice auto-thermostat 50 ppm fans for about 30 bucks.. and id run them off of the psu even if they are only 50's... also im gonna start slowly moding the case.. first step is im getting a replacement for the front 'dell' metal cover over the intake vent, getting a frosted plastic one, will glow nice with a pair of the 92mm blue led fans' behind (assuming i can fit 2, as i have 2 Hdd's in there).. hrm maybe mont them on the outside of the metal grill

anyways thanks for the tip... ill let ya know what i do, and how it goes...

[bubbadubba]

Hey 303dreams,

If you do replace the front Dell metal cover, I'll gladly pay you a fair price for it. I'll PM you with the details.

Bubbadubba