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Post by weltonw on Dec 13, 2004 21:38:38 GMT -5
I've had my XPS Gen 3 / P4 560 for about two months now, and the noise it makes is getting to be extremely annoying. Even my wife - a computer novice - commented on it the other day while I was playing a game. So for about a month I've been toying with the idea of water cooling this thing. Now after seeing sakin13's photos of his water cooled XPS in this thread I feel confident this is a doable project for me, and I'm ready to get going (I ordered my first basic item yesterday - Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound). As far as what water cooling system to get, here's what I'm looking for: - very low noise - decent cooling capability (definitely expect it to perform better than the stock cooling) - a kit I'm not into overclocking, so I don't need massive cooling power. I just want to focus on reducing noise. So here's two options I'm considering right now: 1. Thermaltake Big Water 12cm kit - here's a decent BigBruin review2. Zalman Reserator Obviously the Zalman kit will be more quiet, but with somewhat less cooling capability. With the Zalman there's the option of adding a $20 VGA cooler, which I would consider. I have the NVidia 6800 GT(O), but I haven't yet verified whether the VGA block will mount on the board. A question I have for people on this forum is: do you think the reserator would have sufficient cooling power to handle both the P560 CPU and the 6800 GPU? Since the water first cools the CPU and then the GPU, I'm a little nervous that I'd be sending hot water to the GPU, and that the stock fan would do a better job at cooling. My other concern with the Zalman is that there would be insufficient flow within the case to cool the remaining components, now that the CPU fans are gone. Is this a valid concern, or do you think the XPS still has sufficient flow without those fans? Anyway, these are my thoughts at the moment. I'd let to make a decision soon so I can make this my Christmas project. Any good advice you folks can give is appreciated! I plan on keeping this thread updated with my progress.
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Post by devnull on Dec 14, 2004 10:43:41 GMT -5
That link seems to be just a splash page. I hope they didnt spend money on a site that just says xice witha little graphic....
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Post by weltonw on Dec 14, 2004 22:58:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. BTW, I found an english web page for Xice at www.xice.de/eng/index_e.htm. So I spent most of tonight seriously contemplating your suggestion about just replacing the fans. It would be cheap ($20) and I believe significantly quieter, but I fear that the cooling performance wouldn't be adequate under full load. Two things make me think this: - Under full load the Nidecs run at very high RPM (hence the noise). At those speeds I believe their CFM significantly exceeds that of the Vantecs or Panaflos. Given the lower flow rate I can only imagine higher CPU temperatures.
- sakin13 tried a similar setup using Zalman quiet fans, and he wrote that during "heavy gaming applications the system would go slow." I assume he meant CPU throttling, and I absolutely don't want any risk of that.
Based on this I'm going to stick with my plan for water cooling this beast. I still need to spend a little more time researching my WC options, and as usual there's so much information out there to sift through. At the moment I'm feeling a bit spent, so I'll continue this tomorrow...
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Post by weltonw on Dec 19, 2004 16:08:48 GMT -5
I'm still researching this, but have narrowed down my choices to either the Thermaltake BigWater kit or the Asetek KT03A-L30. The latter is now shipping with an improved pump (the SL35 model) which is supposedly quieter.
In the end I decided against passive cooling. Noiseless is good, but the cooling potential is not as strong. I'm certainly willing to have a little bit of noise to get decent cooling perofrmance.
Regardless of which kit I choose, the water block will require some custom mounting work. (I made paper cutouts of each block to see how they fit!) The Thermaltake block is actually a tad too big - it would extend slightly past the motherboard mounting holes (about 0.5 mm on each side). I would have to drill small indentations into the block to make it fit. With the Asetek kit, if I get the socket-A-only lid for the block then it fits fine in the space.
So here's the summary of where I'm at with these 2 kits:
Thermaltake kit - probably quieter than the Asetek - lower price
Asetek kit - better cooling performance - more expansion options (VGA + chipset coolers) - more powerful pump - slightly easier mounting
I posted at Asetek's forum asking about the new pump's noise level. If it's indeed quieter then I'll probably go with that kit.
I'll keep you guys updated...
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Post by weltonw on Dec 30, 2004 17:36:15 GMT -5
Here's an update of where I'm at with this project.
I ended up ordering the Thermaltake kit (for $139 from http://www.aerocooler.com). I would have gone with the Asetek kit, but I couldn't find any store that still had the socket-A-only lid in stock. Regardless, I was happy to have finally made a decision.
The kit arrived yesterday, and I've been working hard on getting it installed. One disappointment: two nipples on the pump used for refilling were cracked and nearly broken off when the kit arrived. Definitely not a shipping problem as everything was well packaged. Normally I would have asked for a replacement kit, but since I saw that the pump had another opening which could be used for refilling, I decided to live with the defect (rather than wait 3 weeks to get the replacement). I simply removed the nipples entirely and epoxied the holes shut.
With that problem solved I started the installation.
1. I bought a threaded rod (6/32"), cut that into four 2.5" long pieces, and screwed these into the mobo's holes (with the original plastic heatsink base removed)
2. I made 2mm indentations into one side of the waterblock so it would fit the mobo's hole pattern. One nice thing about this is that the block fits snugly against the screws - it can't shift.
3. To secure the block I used two short pieces of U-shaped shelving base (looks kinda like this from the side: |_|). Each piece fits over two screws, and presses on the block in the middle. It's a crude setup, but it's simple and works well.
4. I drilled holes in the back of the case to mount the 120mm fan/radiator. Unlike sakin13's setup where he has the fan blowing out the vent on top of the case, I have the fan blowing out the back.
That's basically it for custom installation. I did all my work using simple tools: drill, hacksaw.
As of right now I've got the tubing attached, have added the coolant, and am doing a leak test (I simply hooked up the pump to a free connector on my old PC). So far it's running well. While I don't yet have the fan running, the pump is completely noiseless.
Assuming the leak test passes I'll be doing the final installation tonight or tomorrow. Once everything's in place I'll also try to post some pictures of the setup.
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Post by TRow on Dec 30, 2004 23:21:50 GMT -5
Sweet, cant wait to see the results!
T.Row
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Post by weltonw on Dec 31, 2004 17:44:36 GMT -5
The cooling system is up and running, and I'm pleased! First off, noise level is much better. With the fan on low all you hear is a little bit of sound from the other fans. When set to high the fan is definitely noticeable yet still very tolerable (unlike the Nidecs). Also, the fan speed stays constant (another thing I hated about the stock setup). Cooling performance seems very good. Unfortunately I don't (yet) have a way to monitor temperature (Gen 3's don't have the 1027 chip). I did a very informal test where I ran SuperPI for 30 minutes and then used my finger as a thermometer. The water block was only slightly warm to the touch. The air-cooled NB heat sink, on the other hand, felt much hotter (both under load and idle). During the test I also ran ThrottleWatch, and everything was normal. Cooling performance should get even better once the thermal compound "cures". My next mod should probably be a temperature probe. I would like to see the effect of changing the fan speed, and find the optimum speed for when I play games. Finally, here are some pics of the setup. I don't have a digital camera, so I simply used my web-cam (hence the low quality). This picture shows the water block mount. You can clearly see the two vertical shelf brackets. Here's a closeup of the fan mounted on the back. The pump sits on the black shroud on the swiveling part of the case. A full view with the case open. The mounting of the fan shows up clearly here. In summary, for about $150 total and a good day's work my system is now pleasantly quiet - comparable to my other 6-year-old PC. Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting.
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Post by crusier on Jan 1, 2005 5:17:18 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what are the markings and pin count on that chip located just above the cpu and water block ?
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Post by weltonw on Jan 1, 2005 13:46:04 GMT -5
The chip has written on it:
ADP3188 J #0425 470837.1
A web search turned up: "The ADP3188 is a highly efficient multiphase synchronous buck switching regulator controller optimized for converting a 12 V main supply into the core supply voltage required by high performance IntelĀ® processors."
The picture's a little misleading - it's not really that close to the CPU.
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Post by crusier on Jan 1, 2005 20:32:55 GMT -5
Dang....it wasn't an evironment and fan controller chip... You hav eto chase them dudes down....usually near the cpu or fan jacks.....it was looking good...but...
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Post by devnull on Jan 1, 2005 20:55:39 GMT -5
Awesome! Water cooling seems to become a very realistic option for XPS owners. Thanks to all you adventurous owners for your hard work.
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Post by tinpusher on Jan 2, 2005 14:54:24 GMT -5
Outstanding. What a great job. What did you do about the message at boot up that says there are no fans?
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Post by TRow on Feb 15, 2005 22:41:19 GMT -5
Back to the lecture at hand... I picked up some goods at Dangerden.com as they were cheaper then my favorite online retailers. Anyhow, heres the damage report. I have yet to purchase a Resevoir like Sakin13's, or a Radiator, or Pump. My friend used a heater core from Autozone as a radiator, and the AV powered Pump is in the works. FedEx 2nd Day to Business hopefully means im gonna have a good weekend. Ill keep ya'z posted. T.RoW
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Post by TRow on Feb 16, 2005 20:02:15 GMT -5
What Im thinking...
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Post by weltonw on Feb 16, 2005 20:52:52 GMT -5
Interesting setup.
My only concern: how can you guarantee that the loop containing your CPU will get enough flow? You're splitting the pump output, and the water will tend to go through the loop which has less resistance. So it may be that one of the loops ends up getting significantly less flow (and you don't want that to be the one with your CPU).
What about directing all pump output into the CPU cooler, and then splitting the output from there into the NB and VGA coolers? That guarantees the CPU always gets full flow.
Just a thought.
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Post by TRow on Feb 16, 2005 21:13:36 GMT -5
Good points. The Pump im deciding to go with is a Hydor L30 or 35. I cant decide because I need more info on a good GPH for my setup.
Heres a couple of online sites. DangerDen FrozenCPU [url=http://shop.store.yahoo.com/directron/hydorl35.html[/url]DirecTron[/url] PetSmartI ordered this about 1 hour ago, from "what I read" it comes with a railing system for filling. Now if thats actually the case well see. Im thinking Petsmart is the way to go on the Pump. T.RoW [/b]
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Post by TRow on Feb 19, 2005 0:18:23 GMT -5
2nd Day Fedex From Oregeon to Midwest, and it arrived today. The pictures on the net do NOT do justice to the size, and shear craftsmenship that went into these 3 blocks. The GPU block is a new design and shipped with both ATi and Nvidia "Back Supports". The design of the GPU block is amazing, simply amazing. The CPU block is a monster, again the pics do NOT do justice to these things. Just simply amazing.
I have yet to purchase a Pump and a Radiator. I plan to take my time and get some good deals plus Im going to document this like crazy.
T.RoW
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Post by devnull on Feb 19, 2005 12:39:26 GMT -5
WOw, that is totally awesome. Definitely a sweet setup. I had priced out watercooling a few months back and when that TDX (which is the next-gen of the MAZE4, right?) is what I really wanted. Awesome setup. But wouldn't it be better to mount your radiator where the shealth-fan combo was and have it blow out there? I mean, the ceiling of the case doesnt allow for anywhere near the outflow that your gonna need. Just my two cents though
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Post by TRow on Mar 2, 2005 1:24:12 GMT -5
This is what Im working with as of yet. I also purchased more tubing for testing the seals before install. Mainly, because measuring twice and cutting once...just doesn't sit well with me. The radiator is the only hangup, as more research is needed. Basically it boils down to whether I can get away with a "Single 120mm"Sized Radiator that can equip 2 Mid-High CFM Fans. See the illustration below. Again more research.... T.RoW
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Post by crusier on Mar 2, 2005 13:23:52 GMT -5
I saw a review on a silver something radiator that looked high on performance versus others. If you don't mind hacking the rear you should be able to mount two 120 fans and a beeg radiator back there. I've wavered on doing dual 120's on the system here. I already cut out the screening and moved the nidecs to the outside...hehe...never finished the rear cover panel....but it was close.
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